Reporter's Note: The portions of this conversation set aside in red type pertain to televising home games and were not considered for broadcast. When Wirtz agreed to sit down with me, he said he didn't want to talk about the issue because his answer has not and will not change.
Click here to read the story as broadcast.
SUPPELSA: It's got to be such a thrill for you to bring boxing back to Chicago and the United Center.
WIRTZ: Oh yes, there's no question about it. The reason you can't get, you know, fights like we had with Don King Promotions is that, you know, the casinos, they'll just outbid you. Even our last fight, we didn't make our guarantee. It was a lot of hard work on that May 23rd. People say "Why should I go to a boxing match?" They don't realize what it is. For a sport. They did realize after they saw the main event with Brewster, even though it only lasted 56 seconds. Any time you see a fighter knocked down three times in any round, that is something. Any time you see a fighter land 14 out of 15 punches, you know damn well who's going to win.
SUPPELSA: Your dad would be proud, saying, "You're going the right direction, bringing boxing back to Chicago."
WIRTZ: Growing up, boxing was the primary sport. If you go through our archives, every Friday night was boxing. I can remember when my first wife, when I began taking her and I'd have to be at fights on Friday night. I made her a boxing fan. That's pretty hard for a girl from the south side -- a nice Irish Catholic girl -- to make her into a boxing fan. But it shows you, it can be done...
Growing up in Chicago in the '30s, there were no gangs like there were today. You didn't carry knives or guns. I mean, that's all you had to do. You had your fists. And if you weren't good, you had the hell beat out of you. And I never liked to have anyone touch me. So I went to the gymnasium. Just about every day.
SUPPELSA: Taught yourself how to box?
WIRTZ: That's right... I did it for self-defense. I couldn't be in a situation where you'd embarrass the family name by getting hit on the button or knocked out or anything else like that. So I just did my boxing...
[Rocky Marciano and I] were at Bonnano's bar. He ordered a pitcher of beer and he poured it over my head. He had a brother named Joey. So what are you going to do? So you go over and order two pitchers of beer, one for Rocky and one for Joey. And that was the biggest barroom fight that we'd ever been in. That cost $2,800. And today's amount --
SUPPELSA: That's huge!
WIRTZ: That's huge. So that's how I got to know him. I liked the name Rocky, even before Sylvester Stallone made it into a household word. Rocky had a grandmother whose name was "Rockwell." So I thought the whole thing tied together. So I named him Rockwell...
SUPPELSA: About last year. About the lockout. Point blank: the owners won. Did they not?
WIRTZ: I hate to characterize labor negotiations. In any business we're in. The banking business, wholesale liquor business, real estate business. Winners or losers. In a collective bargaining agreement. It's a terrible thing if labor wins and then you read in the paper that they're entering chapter eleven.
SUPPELSA: What happened to cause a very friendly situation to become recalcitrant?
WIRTZ: The union said: the owners are crooks. They cook the books. Garbage in, garbage out... Leagues cannot go on losing a billion dollars every three years. So I would say the union were making 75 cents out of every dollar. Now what business can you take 75 percent off the top and not have it go into bankruptcy? I used to tell [NHL] commissioner [Gary] Bettman, I said "We're bankrupt." Worse thing about being bankrupt is not going into chapter eleven. You know, you're waiting too long and then you burn cash. So he says "No one likes to be told that they're running a business that's bankrupt." But when we all took a good hard look, we were bankrupt and not too embarrassed. So we locked out. And we could not go back to work. Because we had to have a linkage between labor and revenues, which we have right now.
The players get 54 percent, which I think is a fabulous deal. The players themselves, not the union, negotiated that 54 percent. So, that's a guarantee. Now, you walk in, you don't even have to buy your own skates. Or pads. Boy, I was blessed not to have a son that's a goalie. Because, you know, I wouldn't have enough money to put him through college. You get 54 percent of every dollar, you know, that's not a bad job. And the only way you can get a raise is to increase the revenues. So I consider what we have right now a true partnership. Naturally, they want a raise. They've got to get out and greet customers and do stuff...
The fan is a VIP. But the public hates owners, for some reason. I'll tell you why they're hated. If you're paying 75 cents of every dollar, naturally you have to raise ticket prices, got to raise parking prices, the price of a hot dog, the price of everything else. I mean, we've never had a dividend on the Chicago Blackhawks in the history of the Blackhawks. It's all been put back in. Into hockey. We'll sign affidavits to that effect.
When you raise prices, you're booed. Now who caused -- you're getting 75 cents on the dollar -- the payroll's your biggest item. So the players should have been booed, rather than the owners, you know? But we all subscribe to what my dad said. People pay -- owners should pay to keep their name out of the paper, not in it. Owners don't sell the ticket. The only person who sells the ticket is the player.
The answer to your question is: I don't think there was a winner in the new agreement. I think that missing a season, it's like what [Dallas Mavericks owner] Mark Cuban said on his website. I've made a billion dollars. I have friends who've made -- but I've never met anyone that has caused a billion dollar loss. And the loss was from the offer that the owners put on the table that was laughed at. It was $1,300,000. I'm angry that the players lost a $1,300,000...
I use the word 'manure' because basically, I'm a farmer. I think, $1,300,000, if they had just read the Levitt report and realized that there's no way -- because pigs get fatter and horses get slaughtered. So, the owners were given no choice but to do what they did. And the only thing that came out of it was a partnership with a linkage to wages and revenues.
SUPPELSA: You're still angry that the players initially laughed at the offer? They ultimately got less when you finally came to an agreement. The players said no, laughed at the offer that was a billion-plus. And they ultimately walked away with less, did they not?
WIRTZ: The executive director of the union has resigned. He's been replaced. The players relied so much on him. But when the Arthur Levitt report was reviewed by the executive committee of the players -- I mean, the players full well realized what the situation was. [They asked] "why are we taking this stance?" And that's why they reversed -- they would never play under a cap. And that's what the head of the union says, they would never play under a cap. All sports have to be under a hard cap with a linkage between labor costs and revenues. The players themselves realized they had to have a cap for this league to go on.
SUPPELSA: You still seem angry about that word "crook." That the employees called the employers "crooks."
WIRTZ: Yes. Yes, I am. You have to have some reason, other than to use the press. The press likes to talk about cheap owners and stuff like that because players sell newspapers.
SUPPELSA: Does the nickname "Dollar Bill" make you angry?
WIRTZ: Well, I joke about it right now. I sign my letters "Dollar Bill." I mean, Bob Verdi put it on me during the World Hockey Association when Bobby Hull left. "Dollar Bill." The parsimonious person, the parsimonious German from Mundelein, Illinois. I bought stock in Dollar Bill and Dollar General. I've done quite well. I think Bob should have bought the same stock. It was his idea and I made the money. But he says I'm lucky all the time. I don't believe in luck. You know, you make your own luck. The harder you work, the luckier you get. So thank you, Bob.
SUPPELSA: How do you want to be remembered?
WIRTZ: That's a good question. I have been remembered very nicely in the U.S. Hockey Hall of Fame and the National Hockey League Hall of Fame. So I don't need any more honors than them. The only way I want to be remembered is not -- not by the public but just by my family and friends and stuff like that. That I did more -- put more back on this Earth than I took out. That's my reputation and I'm gonna stick with it.
SUPPELSA: You're proud of what you've done for your family?
WIRTZ: Very much so. I'm very proud of it. Of course, I was blessed to have chosen the right mother and father. That you have to do, right off the bat. I mean, get somebody who's good-looking like my dad and good-looking like my mother and kind people and stuff like that and energetic enough to put food on the table. So I did that and that was a great accomplishment as well. That's why the poor kid from Lake Shore Drive did so well. Hits a home run.
SUPPELSA: What home runs has Bill Wirtz hit in his life?
WIRTZ: I think raising five children. When [my wife's family] moved over here, there were no department stores, so they put Carson Pirie Scott. You know. That was a home run. Because I know she's going to be watching this, so I want to thank her very much. That was my most recent home run and we got married 17 years ago.
SUPPELSA: When I asked you about being remembered, you had a twinkle in your eye about the Hall of Fame. Your family. But then, you mentioned the public and said you're not going to worry about them. Or you implied you're not going to worry about the public. The public may not be as warm to Bill Wirtz as Bill Wirtz feels he should be remembered. Hence, here we go, "the owners always take the heat." Does that worry you, what the public thinks of Bill Wirtz?
WIRTZ: No, that's what you get paid for. I'm a professional sportsman. My father was before me. That's part of your role. Like Harry Truman said, "If you can't stand the kitchen and the heat, get the hell out of the heat." You go and be a club president, you're hated before you accept the job!
But you take that for a given. I mean, I was raised that if you were going to go into ownership, you were not going to be -- you know, like you've just made the first rocket ship to go into space or a Harry Ford or an inventor. You're a professional sports operator who charges prices for tickets and they're always too high. That's a given.
So you go into the business with that assumption. I went into the business and I've enjoyed the business and we've had an awful lot of entertainment. My father invented the traveling ice show. Indoor circuses, because Ringling Brothers always played outdoors. Rodeos. I grew up riding, Chicago Stadium, you know, broncos and bulls. I had to learn how to ride those... for being his son. I don't think anyone could walk in off the street and gotten on a bull's back or on a bucking, on a mustang's back. But, uh, it's a fun job.
SUPPELSA: Even with all the heat you take in the press? Even with all the heat you take from the public? It's fun?
WIRTZ: Oh yes! You would never -- First of all, you have to be a masochist to be a team president today. You have to love to take punishment. And boy, you take a lot of punishment.
SUPPELSA: You do!
WIRTZ: Oh, I know that. I know that. But I'll tell you one thing, I have fun every day. You have to have a master's sense of humor. I love to laugh. And I have fun while I'm doing it.
SUPPELSA: Help me understand this. If the public was polled today, the fans, the city of Chicago, and they said "When I say Bill Wirtz, what do you think?" If people answered, "Oh he's too cheap." "He hasn't won a championship in the NHL since 1961." "The longest losing streak in the history of the game." That doesn't upset you? That doesn't worry you that the public says "Bill Wirtz, I remember him being cheap, I remember him getting rid of players that we thought could have won us some championships, I remember him not winning a championship since 1961?"
WIRTZ: The Chicago Blackhawks are called, legally, the Chicago Blackhawk Hockey Team, Inc. There have been great people that have helped build that franchise. I joined them in 1952. We've run great players through. We have a reputation. We have the greatest alumni reputation of any sports team in the world. And it's my last paycheck to your best paycheck, you come up with a better one. And we have the best.
Everyone says, "the only good thing about the franchise is, without a doubt, it's the best logo of any professional sports team in the world." And it is. And I'm proud to wear anything. My sisters say "Don't you think it's a little commercial that you wear an Indian head on every jacket you have," You know? "And all your shirts have got the 6-inch Indian head on the front?" I'm proud of that Indian head. We built it. And we built ourselves a reputation.
I like our franchise, the prospects for winning a championship, much more than anybody else's. Because the people we got in place -- I mean, I've been around a long time -- I say they're the best. In my opinion. We'll see. That's what makes horse racing. You can only have one winner. I still haven't gotten over the 1971 loss, seventh game in Chicago stadium. I know the roar of Chicago stadium and what this sport is. It's the greatest sport that's ever been invented.
But we took a year of hiatus off and it's not only my responsibility as a club president, or the commissioner's, but each and every player. I mean, to come back and say, "Lookit. We're gonna skate 60 minutes." One of the great things about hockey, you're changing on the fly. You play three periods for 60 minutes. I mean, I played football. And it's awful nice to limp off. I was tight end. And to limp back, and you know the people in the stands are looking at you and stuff like that. You grab your ankle and your knee and you walk over and all of a sudden then you huddle. Then you talk about where you're going out for dinner and all that stuff like that. There's not time enough [in hockey] for that. It's too fast. You're going 35 miles per hour all the time. It's hard to think. To be a National Hockey League player. That's the only difference. You've got hockey sense or you don't. The National Hockey League. Gotta have guts. But we will bring it back. You've got the bluebirds and stuff like that. There's not a better guy.
WIRTZ: I've been involved. Our family at one time owned the New York Yankees, you know for -- bought it from the Rupert estate. So I know baseball, I know all the sports. And as our partner, James D. Norris said, "We couldn't have been wrong for all these years or we would have sold the franchise."
SUPPELSA: You bring up the New York Yankees. [Blackhawks Communications Director] Jim [DeMaria] and I talked. I'll be honest, he said "You know, Mr. Wirtz hates the TV question. The local home game TV question." Let me give you a comparison though, without asking you directly about that question. The Yankees this year drew four million fans. First time ever, all their games are on the tube. Making money hand over fist from television and at the gate. I guess I'm breaking the rule. Wouldn't that work for you too?
WIRTZ: Nah! I mean, what would -- if you were in my position, what would your job be?
SUPPELSA: Putting fannies in those seats.
WIRTZ: I mean, you have shareholders. What's your first job to a shareholder?
SUPPELSA: Make them money.
WIRTZ: Or breaking even? Because if you don't break even, you're going to lose your job, right? Because that was the thing that we voted against in '94 and '95. How can you have a payroll -- we had two leagues within a league. We had five clubs that had payrolls of $75 to 80 million. You have 25 teams, you know, that have payrolls of $30 or 31 [million]. You can't have it. That's why you have to have a hard cap. Our hard cap was always $39 million. It's what we are right now. Where we are, we have room. We're at $32 million. But we're only $7 million off the cap. Before, we're $40 million. There's no way you can compete on that basis.
We aren't a cable company. We aren't Comcast, that owns two-thirds of Philadelphia. We aren't Cablevision, that owns Madison Square Garden. We don't have 21 million subscribers paying $2.85 a month.
SUPPELSA: You know business better than anybody in this town. There are those that would say, you put more fannies in the seats, if they saw the product on television more as an advertisement. To which you would make advertising revenue as well --
WIRTZ: I can see you've never operated. And you'd be a lousy operator. Do you realize what it costs us to produce a game?
SUPPELSA: No.
WIRTZ: Well, if you take a look at that and take a look at what you're offered, we televise games. We televise all our away games. We broadcast. Home and away. So it's not like we're a deep, dark secret. It gets into -- why don't Broadway shows televise every night?
SUPPELSA: Because you gotta pay and go see 'em?
WIRTZ: We just had the U2's in. I'm not gonna see Paul McCartney. I'm not gonna see -- that's the same thing. But you and the rest of you. that's a vulnerability to Bill Wirtz. Let's ask him about free TV. Give me the revenues of the NFL. I mean, I'm a businessman. But they've only got 10 games plus the exhibition games, so -- I mean, in our sport, we don't enjoy those revenues. Hopefully someday we can. But right now, I told you, we lost $18 million. I'm not going to lose $28 million.
SUPPELSA: You run a number of marvelously successful business. Your beloved hockey team has not won a championship -- close in '71, but not since 1961. Does Bill Wirtz deserve any blame for that?
WIRTZ: Well, you know, you've got this thing carved off that there can only be one winner. We've finished 36 years in the playoffs. Every year, you start out. I mean, I mean it's nice to look into the camera and say "This is the year we're going to win the Stanley Cup." But you can't promise that. You don't know. I mean, right now, I think we have the greatest hockey club we've had since the late 50's and 60's. I think we have more prospects for the National Hockey League than any other club. I mean, we signed a free agent that I consider the best goaltender. We signed defensemen. And I think the whole thing is that Emil Francis, that great general manager from the New York Rangers called up and he said "Lookit. I spent my life in hockey and I'm betting on you. Because you still believe you build from the goal on out and from the defensemen." And with the young people we've got coming up here, I'm not worried about scoring goals when you have what we have right here now. I don't know whoever wrote -- the Wirtz family are the oldest family owning a professional team in North America. So, yes, are we dinosaurs? Yeah. '61, yes, I remember. I remember '71. And I remember '94. Which, I thought we had a helluva chance. We were in the finals. But it's easier to write back. Closes only count in horseshoes. The Toronto Mapleleafs haven't won now in a long time. Boston Bruins haven't won in a long time. But it's easier to say because we've been in business longer than anybody else --
SUPPELSA: It's easier to point a finger at the Wirtz family.
WIRTZ: That's right. That's right!
SUPPELSA: Is it unfair? Is it unfair that the finger gets pointed at the Wirtz family?
WIRTZ: Oh yeah. I mean, um, I mean, to satisfy the public. You trying to say we should sell the franchise to someone who can win a championship?
SUPPELSA: No, I didn't say that.
WIRTZ: Because I -- well, yes you are. In effect, you are. There's no magic to winning a championship. I say our ownership, we have, I mean, the way we've acted and where we are right now -- I don't believe in luck. We knew this thing couldn't be happening. We traded players for draft choices and put ourselves in this position. That's not luck. That's hard work and foresight. Plus, getting outside people to take a look at what the situation is, which is what we did with Arthur Levitt. So are we geniuses? Yes. Because we believed Arthur Levitt. And we ran our club accordingly. And you will take a look at it. I will say, of the next four or five years, that I wouldn't want to play against us!
SUPPELSA: This season, after this lockout season, do you think you'll have trouble getting fans back in the seats? Will the NHL have trouble getting fans back?
WIRTZ: No, I don't think so at all. If you have a good whiskey, it's either in the bottle or not. As I told you, in my opinion, the greatest game that's ever been invented is the National Hockey League. It's in the bottle. And I'm in the wholesale liquor business and the wine and beer distribution business and yes, I do enjoy a good drink. Provided it's good in the bottle, there's no such thing as having bad whiskey. And there's no such thing as having a bad sport. You cannot market a bad sport. When you have the best one, in my mind, it's very easy...
In 1952, whoever thought we'd be playing Russia like we did in 1972? The 35 of the best against Canada and the 35 best against Russia. I couldn't even pronounce their names. I'm having a hard time now. But we're a world sport, more than any other thing. Where's football all over? Can you go to Finland and watch football? Can you go to Sweden and watch football? No. But you can watch hockey. And I think hockey will truly be the first -- outside of soccer -- truly an international sport.
SUPPELSA: Last question for you, sir.
WIRTZ: And yes, we're gonna play girls someday too.
SUPPELSA: Some do play.
WIRTZ: I wouldn't mind having Sarah Tueting last three or four years at goal.
SUPPELSA: Speaking of the public, how do you want the public to remember Bill Wirtz?
WIRTZ: I don't think I have a right to ask that. What the public would think. I live my life. That's record. My voting record in the National Hockey League. I mean, I didn't get in the hall of fame for playing hockey. I got in for management. And the type of man I am. So I've been judged by my peers. They're people who've been in business and done my job. I'm not an insecure man. I don't have to go out and pay for advertising and get articles and "Here, I've gave so much to charity" and "Here." ... I like to be private.
SUPPELSA: Okay, now it's your turn. Anything that you haven't talked about that you want to talk about? I won't even ask the question. What's on your mind? What have I missed? What can I add that you haven't talked about?
WIRTZ: Your business. How do you make your money? You make your money by getting interviews with me. And you sell that. You sell that for advertising.
SUPPELSA: Interesting people are interesting to watch. That's how we sell it.
WIRTZ: So that's why you got -- you treat me very fairly, but that's why. It's like me starting out with you, "When'd you stop beating your wife, lady?" "When was the last time that you beat her?"
SUPPELSA: Haven't yet.
WIRTZ: "But when's the last time that you did? Yeah. Answer the question!" You know. All these innuendos and stuff like that. People should read Jonathan Felding, Alice in Wonderland about the lilliputins and the bobbinacks. You take little situations and blow them up with your media. You can do it. You know. It's out of proportion. Plus, they're innuendos. And I think those things are very unfair. If you're a politician. If you're an inmate in prison. Or any profession that you are. Your profession has the ability to take and -- for exaggeration and effect -- blow things out of proportion.
SUPPELSA: So you say --
WIRTZ: Well, uh, yeah.
SUPPELSA: -- the media takes an innuendo and can turn it into fact. And that's unfair? Is that what you're telling me?
WIRTZ: Yeah. I guess I am. Because the first thing we talked about was, I told you I did not -- it's a non-debatable thing. Because we have made our decision about televising home games. And you said "Fine, I understand that." But yet you get into me with me. Why you doing it? Because it sells advertising for you.
SUPPELSA: Are you upset with me for asking that?
WIRTZ: Yeah. Yeah. What?
SUPPELSA: Are you upset with me for asking that?
WIRTZ: No. I believe in "you oughta have a word or you don't." When I give my word, you can go to the bank on it.
SUPPELSA: Did I break my word?
WIRTZ: I think you did. But you did it for one thing. Prostitutes do not engage in sex for sensual pleasure. They do it for money. And you're doing this for money.
SUPPELSA: So you say, since I approached the question about television, I whored myself out?
WIRTZ: In my mind, yeah. Because I said I would -- I asked [Blackhawks Communications Director] Jimmy DeMaria. I said, "This is another situation you're gonna do me for 'no home TV game' stuff. What's really about it?" I use empathy. I put myself in your situation. Would I have done what you did? No. So, thank you.
SUPPELSA: Thank you sir, it's been a pleasure.
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